Thanks for this. One of the reasons I've remained committed to my denomination is the full equality of women in all aspects of ministry. I wanted my children, and esp. my daughter, to see that as a reality. My wife is an elder (and session clerk) so she's modelling that too. I've also been shaped positively by women in leadership in a range of context.
What I am seeing, though, is while different churches might have polity that affirms women in ministry if there are no visible signs of that (e.g. the sermon is always preached by a man), then the female leader role models aren't there to encourage and build up the subsequent generations. That manifests itself in an increasing number of young people that I've encountered heading back down the complementarian and male-only leadership because they can't see or imagine anything different. Working on that when I encounter it.
Thanks Stephen! It’s sometimes harder to name and see change in spaces that theoretically affirm women but fall short in practice. There is agreement when you bring it up, but people struggle when it comes to actually bringing about change sometimes. It takes a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of people to make it happen. Our educational institutions, our imaginations, and our practical efforts all need some work. And having kids (and a daughter specifically) has brought some practical light to my life that made me aware of barriers I didn’t even know were there. Glad you’re putting that effort in!
Kia ora bro. I remember my home church having its first female elder within the last decade. It wasn't communicated explicitly that they couldn't. It is the systemic way that the Baptists, as a settler-colonial institution, have upheld white patriarchy that has had more light shone on it since I first became part of the haahi over half my life ago. Kia kaha kōrua mō tō mahi :) Proud to have you's as friends who humbly and with grace prophetically call out the Church to be all that she is designed to be. Ngā mihi!
Ngā mihi nui bro! Grateful for you all! It’s nice to have people who ask questions and challenge things that need to be changed or torn down altogether. And there are a ton of ingrained things in our day to day church lives that need some reevaluation. Personally, I wish we had better measures than who leads, who speaks, and who does “important” ministry. If we had a structure that actually dignified all of Christ’s body, then we wouldn’t be so hung up on leadership. That’s a part of the colonisation of the church, I think.
But most indigenous peoples have a fundamental understanding of belonging to a group and finding identity in relation to one another (not to mention the land and all of creation!). Failing to be ever-mindful of that is one of the most egregious mistakes of the Western church because we often don’t know how to belong to one another and to creation. We end up using people for our institutional goals that sound good but miss the point. There is a lot of decolonisation that needs to happen in our churches.
This is great thank you Matt. I think I was in my thirties when I first saw a woman doing the offering. And it was some time after that when a woman was involved in leading Communion. That was a step too far for some :)
Thanks Phil! There are lines that some don’t like crossed for sure, and we usually don’t find them until they have been crossed.
It’s wild how many people I run across with experiences like this here. In fairness, I find people who have seen women preaching, administering communion, and more their whole lives (that would be true in America too). But there are scores of people who go a long time before seeing women publicly valued and affirmed. They say it takes a generation for trends like this to change. Let’s hope the next one finds it normal.
Thanks for this. One of the reasons I've remained committed to my denomination is the full equality of women in all aspects of ministry. I wanted my children, and esp. my daughter, to see that as a reality. My wife is an elder (and session clerk) so she's modelling that too. I've also been shaped positively by women in leadership in a range of context.
What I am seeing, though, is while different churches might have polity that affirms women in ministry if there are no visible signs of that (e.g. the sermon is always preached by a man), then the female leader role models aren't there to encourage and build up the subsequent generations. That manifests itself in an increasing number of young people that I've encountered heading back down the complementarian and male-only leadership because they can't see or imagine anything different. Working on that when I encounter it.
Thanks Stephen! It’s sometimes harder to name and see change in spaces that theoretically affirm women but fall short in practice. There is agreement when you bring it up, but people struggle when it comes to actually bringing about change sometimes. It takes a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of people to make it happen. Our educational institutions, our imaginations, and our practical efforts all need some work. And having kids (and a daughter specifically) has brought some practical light to my life that made me aware of barriers I didn’t even know were there. Glad you’re putting that effort in!
Kia ora bro. I remember my home church having its first female elder within the last decade. It wasn't communicated explicitly that they couldn't. It is the systemic way that the Baptists, as a settler-colonial institution, have upheld white patriarchy that has had more light shone on it since I first became part of the haahi over half my life ago. Kia kaha kōrua mō tō mahi :) Proud to have you's as friends who humbly and with grace prophetically call out the Church to be all that she is designed to be. Ngā mihi!
Ngā mihi nui bro! Grateful for you all! It’s nice to have people who ask questions and challenge things that need to be changed or torn down altogether. And there are a ton of ingrained things in our day to day church lives that need some reevaluation. Personally, I wish we had better measures than who leads, who speaks, and who does “important” ministry. If we had a structure that actually dignified all of Christ’s body, then we wouldn’t be so hung up on leadership. That’s a part of the colonisation of the church, I think.
But most indigenous peoples have a fundamental understanding of belonging to a group and finding identity in relation to one another (not to mention the land and all of creation!). Failing to be ever-mindful of that is one of the most egregious mistakes of the Western church because we often don’t know how to belong to one another and to creation. We end up using people for our institutional goals that sound good but miss the point. There is a lot of decolonisation that needs to happen in our churches.
This is great thank you Matt. I think I was in my thirties when I first saw a woman doing the offering. And it was some time after that when a woman was involved in leading Communion. That was a step too far for some :)
Thanks Phil! There are lines that some don’t like crossed for sure, and we usually don’t find them until they have been crossed.
It’s wild how many people I run across with experiences like this here. In fairness, I find people who have seen women preaching, administering communion, and more their whole lives (that would be true in America too). But there are scores of people who go a long time before seeing women publicly valued and affirmed. They say it takes a generation for trends like this to change. Let’s hope the next one finds it normal.