I think you are on track when you talk about Competency in scriptural interpretation and application. It becomes a tool that the Holy Spirit can use to change your life. After years of trying to get the group, we are in, to learn how to share their faith, it took a Bible study, patients and prayer to convince them that it was part of the Christian life. knowing is not enough and denominational pride is divisive. I asked my grandson, what is more important faith in God or going to Church. He said faith in God. After living in a Christian home and spending 16 years in Christian schools and going to a great church someone I love told me they no longer believed in God.
Just thinking out loud. Christian Organizations can create an environment for making disciples because they can focus their energy to accomplish a goal. Making disciples and makers of disciple makers. and those that are a part of the program join willingly and know why they are there and if they stay long enough, they become makers of disciple makers. But organizations are not the Church and they do not seek to feed the hungry, or care for widows and orphans and their community outreach is evangelism. I was at a bar eating dinner and talked to the guy sitting next to me. He said, "I am a Christian. I met a girl fell in love with her, went to her Church and was baptized. She dumped me and i don't go anymore." I said, "You are not a Christian." He smiled and I talked to him about the meaning of Faith. He asked, "You actually believe man is not basically good?" I said, "Ask yourself that question." What did the Church do with this seeker? Looking forward to reading more.
Thanks Matt for your reflections. I'd be interested to learn about the environment in which you have most experienced growth toward maturity in Christ. In particular what kind of body dynamic; what did you contribute and what did they?
Thanks for this Matt. I look forward to reading and learning more in subsequent, related posts. Your note about the varying weight put on "mature" versus "newer" believers struck me as especially relevant. Paul encourages Timothy not to let others "despise" his youth, which I take to mean his chronological age (1 Tim 4:12). Youth is no indication of undeveloped or unformed faith. It's all too easy to defer to those who have been in the faith longer than others because we assume time with Lord means maturity in the Lord. All things equal, this is not unreasonable and there should be a correlation between time and maturity. Indeed, Heb 5:11-14 issues a rebuke regarding. And yet, Eph 4:7 indicates everyone has been gifted by the Spirit, so it seems to me that everyone should be weighted the same, lest we stifle the works of God in his Church. Just some thoughts.
Yeah, I agree that the Spirit is the great equalizer in terms of someone being used, regardless of age or even time in relationship to God. At any moment, or even for a length of time, this can be true and should be considered. And we should always be open to seeing God, hearing rebuke, and finding wisdom in any believer because that’s just demonstrative of the greatness of God.
But I do think Paul acknowledges the differences between maturity and immaturity and how that generally impacts influence among the body. I think of maturity and immaturity sort of like a proverb, where certain things are generally true, but don’t have to be every time. The longer you walk with Christ, the more mature you *should* be. And time tends to prove that true—I think of Timothy’s proven worth in Philippians 2:22. We should seek out those who look like Jesus and bear the Spirit’s fruit as models to imitate. But, in many instances, it is the older in faith who need to listen to the younger as examples for living in obedience. These distinctions are temporary and permeable.
And one other thing I’ll talk about with my maturity post later on is the tone we find in Paul’s letters and the correlation with how “mature” we can assume each church is. For example, the Corinthians are described as immature, broadly speaking. As a result, he uses more language that is commanding and authoritative. Contrasted with the Philippians, a community that is praised for their maturity and work alongside Paul, he is much less authoritative. But there is room for both communities to grow, and every single person in each locale is called to maturity. There are no barriers to any one person becoming more like Christ. And that is the point I want to make about the immaturity vs maturity distinction—that it is meant to be temporary and that maturity is for every member of the body, not just the educated and special (pastors, priests, etc).
Keen point on levels of maturity in churches and the link to tones of authority. Even early on in Paul's writing, we find this linkage (Galatians; a rather sharp tone vis-a-vis 1 Thessalonians; much more gentle). I'm curious how you'll unpack this.
I think you are on track when you talk about Competency in scriptural interpretation and application. It becomes a tool that the Holy Spirit can use to change your life. After years of trying to get the group, we are in, to learn how to share their faith, it took a Bible study, patients and prayer to convince them that it was part of the Christian life. knowing is not enough and denominational pride is divisive. I asked my grandson, what is more important faith in God or going to Church. He said faith in God. After living in a Christian home and spending 16 years in Christian schools and going to a great church someone I love told me they no longer believed in God.
Just thinking out loud. Christian Organizations can create an environment for making disciples because they can focus their energy to accomplish a goal. Making disciples and makers of disciple makers. and those that are a part of the program join willingly and know why they are there and if they stay long enough, they become makers of disciple makers. But organizations are not the Church and they do not seek to feed the hungry, or care for widows and orphans and their community outreach is evangelism. I was at a bar eating dinner and talked to the guy sitting next to me. He said, "I am a Christian. I met a girl fell in love with her, went to her Church and was baptized. She dumped me and i don't go anymore." I said, "You are not a Christian." He smiled and I talked to him about the meaning of Faith. He asked, "You actually believe man is not basically good?" I said, "Ask yourself that question." What did the Church do with this seeker? Looking forward to reading more.
Thanks Matt for your reflections. I'd be interested to learn about the environment in which you have most experienced growth toward maturity in Christ. In particular what kind of body dynamic; what did you contribute and what did they?
Thanks for this Matt. I look forward to reading and learning more in subsequent, related posts. Your note about the varying weight put on "mature" versus "newer" believers struck me as especially relevant. Paul encourages Timothy not to let others "despise" his youth, which I take to mean his chronological age (1 Tim 4:12). Youth is no indication of undeveloped or unformed faith. It's all too easy to defer to those who have been in the faith longer than others because we assume time with Lord means maturity in the Lord. All things equal, this is not unreasonable and there should be a correlation between time and maturity. Indeed, Heb 5:11-14 issues a rebuke regarding. And yet, Eph 4:7 indicates everyone has been gifted by the Spirit, so it seems to me that everyone should be weighted the same, lest we stifle the works of God in his Church. Just some thoughts.
Yeah, I agree that the Spirit is the great equalizer in terms of someone being used, regardless of age or even time in relationship to God. At any moment, or even for a length of time, this can be true and should be considered. And we should always be open to seeing God, hearing rebuke, and finding wisdom in any believer because that’s just demonstrative of the greatness of God.
But I do think Paul acknowledges the differences between maturity and immaturity and how that generally impacts influence among the body. I think of maturity and immaturity sort of like a proverb, where certain things are generally true, but don’t have to be every time. The longer you walk with Christ, the more mature you *should* be. And time tends to prove that true—I think of Timothy’s proven worth in Philippians 2:22. We should seek out those who look like Jesus and bear the Spirit’s fruit as models to imitate. But, in many instances, it is the older in faith who need to listen to the younger as examples for living in obedience. These distinctions are temporary and permeable.
And one other thing I’ll talk about with my maturity post later on is the tone we find in Paul’s letters and the correlation with how “mature” we can assume each church is. For example, the Corinthians are described as immature, broadly speaking. As a result, he uses more language that is commanding and authoritative. Contrasted with the Philippians, a community that is praised for their maturity and work alongside Paul, he is much less authoritative. But there is room for both communities to grow, and every single person in each locale is called to maturity. There are no barriers to any one person becoming more like Christ. And that is the point I want to make about the immaturity vs maturity distinction—that it is meant to be temporary and that maturity is for every member of the body, not just the educated and special (pastors, priests, etc).
Here, here! RE: older listening to younger, I'm reminded of Stanley Hauerwas's notion of 'moral strangers' (see my https://inchristus.com/2014/01/02/moral-strangers-what-veggie-tales-and-stanley-hauerwas-can-teach-us-about-retirement/). If we continue swimming in the same lanes as those like us, then we may well miss out on substantial growth.
Keen point on levels of maturity in churches and the link to tones of authority. Even early on in Paul's writing, we find this linkage (Galatians; a rather sharp tone vis-a-vis 1 Thessalonians; much more gentle). I'm curious how you'll unpack this.